Editorial
Personal Background: Dhinesha Karthigesu is a multi-disciplinary storyteller who is currently working on his first book, his second short film and is writing his third play. He is Malaysia’s first and only National Poetry Slam Champion and the host + creator of the Creative Curry Podcast. He has been featured at schools, universities and festivals. In 2019, he co-created his first visual arts installation, was featured in an inflight magazine and his work was adapted into a comic strip. So far, in 2020 his writing has been featured on Vice India and Vice Asia. He is currently based in the Klang Valley, in Damansara Perdana.
You can find him online at www.dhinesha.com
Q: How would you describe your family and education background?
DK: I grew up in what counts as a middle class or upper middle class Malaysian Indian family. Both my parents are entrepreneurs and run their own businesses. Since we were young, my sister and I had what could only be considered as “full time” parents since my parents were always around. Our growing up was definitely not typical as we were always surrounded by other entrepreneurs and our parents constantly encouraged us to be ambitious. My parents played self-help cassettes and then CDs in the car while they ferried us from school to tuition to home. We had a massive library of books from fiction to personal development. And even with all of this, we were still encouraged to study hard and do well in our studies.
This is obviously a privilege because our unconventional upbringing gave us access to more forms of learning than I would imagine most other kids did. And this very much shows in both my sister and me. We have run multiple businesses between the both of us despite only being 29 and 24 years old respectively.
Most education was easy for me until I got to college and became disenfranchised with the whole higher education system. Don’t get me wrong, I love to learn and still do. I find myself constantly either reading or consuming some form of educational material. Learning has always been something I enjoy. But the whole system of higher education and the way I received it was not conducive for me and my growth. All that business spirit definitely did not help because I just constantly wanted to branch out and do things on my own. And not have what I considered even till now as a typical 9-5 job.
I studied a mix of psychology mass communication and then pivoted into doing a coaching diploma. And then got myself certified as a corporate trainer. All of these different learning experiences further helped me develop my voice and understand what I wanted to make as a person.
I think for the longest time my interests have always been trying to figure out how to tell stories. How to do it consistently and constantly better. And how to make a living doing just that.
Q: And how did your employment and creative background develop?
DK: For the longest time, both my employment and creative backgrounds were very separate. I was either helping in the family business or auditioning for roles. That sort of thing. But to give you an idea of where it began, I would have to say it started in and is still rooted in story and speaking. I joke about this all the time but I started speaking when I was 9 months old and I still say that I haven’t stopped since. All my initial forays into creativity were in story and speaking. From school concerts to debates to public speaking competitions. And then it all stopped when managing both work/business and the creativity was too difficult to handle.
I started working in our family business the moment I finished my SPM at 17 years old and I continued to work at it until about the year 2014/2015 when I was about 23/24 years old. For context, I turn 29 years old this year in 2020. Our family runs multiple online businesses with multiple streams of income from training to sales. This time period was officially the crash course for me in business. To this day it colors even the work I do right now. I learned everything from presentation skills, to customer service to sales, to cold calling to networking. Think the ultimate manual in how to be a sales person and in entrepreneurship.
Once I left the family business, I did a lot of odd jobs from sales work to being a university marketing rep and counselor to even being a Starbucks barista. At the same time, I was slowly building a practice as a coach. All of these different experiences found me using my creativity in new ways. But the one thing that didn’t stop was my practice of journalling and writing. While I was not actively putting myself out there, I found other ways to still indulge in my creativity. I started writing a lot.
One of the reasons also why I wasn’t also able to indulge more in the arts, which at that point to me was only theatre, was because we lived in Kajang. Most events and things happen in Kuala Lumpur. This is coupled with the fact that I was deathly afraid of driving and at that point didn’t have a car of my own, made moving around very difficult.
All of this changed when we moved to Petaling Jaya and I started driving. That’s how I found my way back to the arts that now expanded to spoken word and poetry. Which effectively began my spoken word career and then led me back to even theatre. Only at this point did my work that paid me and my creative work started to merge. I started working with creatives on their own projects and realized that I could pivot my coaching business into the creative field instead.
I currently run Dhinesha Stories and Coaching that is a bespoke coaching agency and production company. My coaching work is centered on helping and mentoring people on imagining, producing and executing their creative projects. Through the production side, I also produce and host The Creative Curry Podcast alongside Poet X (a podcast team). My company is also producing ROJA, an upcoming theatre production and visual arts installation that are focused on the stories of Indian womxn. As a solo person, I co produce and co curate the Human Exhibit series with Ian Skatu under his production company, I’M Entertainment. This is all alongside any and all poetry, short stories and plays I write.
(You can find out more about my work here (https://www.dhinesha.com) and listen to the Creative Curry Podcast on Spotify (https://open.spotify.com/show/57DxSK8aEEJi4UVBh9EdsE?si=IImPpKMsRG2ZcTQcl59tJQ) and anywhere else you get your podcasts.)
Q: Who were your mentors, or what are the influences on your work?
DK: Mentorship within the arts spaces is such a tricky thing. It’s not as clear-cut unless it’s within some clear, specified boundaries. Having said that, some of my biggest mentors have been unofficial.
Looking back, some of my earliest mentors were my English teachers in school who encouraged me to write and tell the stories I wanted to tell. They were the ones who signed me up for plays, debates and public speaking competitions. My Form 1 and Form 2 arts teacher, Mrs Singh definitely helped me push the levels of what I thought Art and Pendidikan Seni were. My creative spirit was further lit thanks to all her pushing.
An official mentor I have had, was to be mentored very early on in my career by Canadian multi-disciplinary artist Vivek Shreya. She offered mentorship via her website and I won a chance to work with her. To be honest, I was too young as an artist to fully appreciate and utilize that experience but it was revolutionary for me.
Unofficial mentors for me have always been people who push me and get me to do things beyond my experience level at that time. Australian spoken word poet and performer, Scotty Wings made me really consider how much my physicality and body plays a role in my performance when he did a workshop here in KL in 2017. Spoken word poet and published author Melizarani T. Selva pushed me to compete in poetry slams for the first time and to rethink the kind of poet I wanted to be. Theatre director and veteran Chris Ling got me to write lyrics for the first time for the BOH Cameronian Arts Awards in 2019 and in 2018 pushed me to write a version of a one man show for me to perform. Constant collaborator Ian Skatu was the first one to encourage me to write a play. There have been countless others and I am grateful for every single one of them.
Everybody I interview on The Creative Curry Podcast gives such good advice that I end up learning from and embodying each time I have a conversation with one of them. And sometimes even while editing and once its published, I re-listen to my own episodes with them for further mentoring and learning.
Q: Where did you train, intern, first work?
DK: I learned pretty much everything on the job. I wrote on my own, building on all that I had learned in school alongside everything else I had ever watched.
But if I really had to mark my firsts within the arts, it would have to be my first open MIC that I attended in February 2017. It was the first time I was performing in this capacity at a gig of this kind. It was a queer open MIC that is run by spoken word poet and educator Cat Brogan. I performed a piece called “Dear Future Husband” and just like that my spoken word career began with that one open MIC.
If I think of a massive first for me as a writer in theatre, it would be “Silk & Strings: The Truth of Bullying” that was produced by I’M Entertainment in November 2017. That was my first full-length script as a playwright. I had been asked by the producer Ian Skatu and director Alia Kearney (who are now both friends of mine) to write a play. And despite knowing how, I did. And this baby was born.
Q: What productions, projects did you get involved in, when, and where? What was it about, and how was the reception?
DK: I have been involved in many projects in just the 3 plus years since 2017. To name all of them may be an issue but I can talk about the bigger productions and projects I have worked on and am currently working on. Apart from the ones I have already mentioned.
One of the bigger ones is definitely The Human Exhibit Series. After working together on my first play, Ian Skatu and I continued that partnership with The Human Exhibit: Mentalhealth (THEM) that we produced together under his company I’M Entertainment. It was a production that was critically appreciated and completely sold out. We then continued with The Human Exhibit: Sex&Gender (THESE) a year later. Hopefully once the Covid-19 situation gets better, we were hoping to return with another iteration of The Human Exhibit this year.
I have also been working closely with another multi-disciplinary artist Veshalini Naidu on ROJA. This production/long form creative project is produced under my own company (Dhinesha Stories & Coaching). We have been exploring the stories of Indian womxn and especially their relationship with the saree. It’s been a long process of diving into identity and interviewing Indian womxn. While originally conceived as a theatre play first, we ended up putting up a visual arts installation instead. Towards the end of 2019, as part the Banana Leaf exhibition in GMBB, we debuted the installation titled ‘ROJA: Weaving A Womxn’ and devised a short performance piece for one of the nights based around the Indian female coming of age ceremony. This installation was also in the process of being recreated at the Georgetown Festival 2020 before the festival was cancelled due to Covid-19.
Q: Who are your greatest inspirations, and why?
DK: My immediate instinct to that question was to say I don’t know exactly who inspires me. My brain then went to the more clichéd example of my parents. I think my parents definitely inspired me as do most parents for their kids. And I think their role was definitely to inspire me to consider alternative ways of living and working. It’s the reason I am self-employed and in business today. It’s also why I intend to be a full time father when I have kids one day and I find this desire coloring a huge part of the decisions I make.
I think apart from them, I find inspiration in a lot of places. Sometimes derived from memory or events. Or it could be finding inspiration when I see someone succeeding/doing well in the arts and finding myself wanting to have that career. All of this ends up being inspiration for me.
Q: In the years and months leading to the last election (2018) we have seen the mainstream media and budgets centered around Development, IR4.0, digitization, the gig economy and SMEs; this was followed by a period of “reform” centered around cutting costs, Asian tigers and countering corruption.
As a young member of the arts, what incentives recognizing or favoring your contribution to society did you benefit most from during these eras?
DK: None actually.
I think I may have indirectly benefited from gigs or opportunities that were funded by some of these big organizations or corporations but as far as I know, I have never personally received anything.
I think a lot of people still don’t realize that apart from funding opportunities that are presented to us as artists, a lot of the corporate arrangements come through the connections and relationships you have. I know when we were fundraising to raise money for Befrienders with my first play (“Silk & Strings: The Truth of Bullying) we definitely used my dad’s contacts to raise those funds via SMEs who had smaller CSR efforts.
Q: Some people feel there is a lack of appreciation for the arts and the roles it plays in society as reflected in the budgets and policies of this country. Yet at the same time we are a tourism destination, and the ministry in charge of tourism is also in charge of culture. What are your thoughts or experiences on the matter of how the arts, your career, is treated by the government?
DK: I think the idea that arts and culture is placed under the same department as tourism is a bad idea. It commodifies the arts and forces you to solely think of output and production. This is then placed under the lens of tourism and what is “sellable” or could be sold to tourists. This totally came out of a conversation I had with fellow young artists especially in light of our new Minister in charge Tan Sri Nancy Shukri’s comments while being interviewed on Astro Awani recently.
The ministry feels out of touch with what is actually happening with the arts. The fact that there are so many names and faces that is not in the mainstream. Those who do work in smaller spaces. Those who work behind the scenes. The arts is a career, it takes work. And not a lot of people from the government to the public are willing to recognize and acknowledge that.
Q: What are your views on censorship, state control, moral policing and regulating the arts scene in this country and region?
DK: I absolutely hate it and detest it. I think what makes it worse is the fact that a lot of it is unspoken and unwritten. This makes it harder with younger practitioners who sometimes mentor with older practitioners. We have had multiple changes of governments and ministers over the years. The policy when it comes to censorship and moral policing is not clear. And it seems to also change depending on so many different factors: Where you stage your show plays a role; how big an audience plays a role; who are the cast members plays a role; there are a lot of factors that come into play.
When we were in pre-production for The Human Exhibit:Sex&Gender (THESE), Ian and I had to do a lot of research just to ensure that not only was our title one that wasn’t going to get us in trouble but that we were able to legally protect ourselves and our cast and crew. And to not have to compromise on quality and the kind of stories we want to tell too – it’s a lot of unnecessary juggling that no artist should have to go through.
It would be a lot easier if the guidelines were clear and in writing. How do you know what boundaries to cross or that you are crossing if the lines are not clear?
Having said that, a lot of fellow artists have brought it to my attention that the vagueness can be a lot more helpful as we can then push boundaries constantly. It’s a lot harder to cross lines when the lines are fixed. And I can appreciate that opposing idea and notion too.
Q: Speaking of government, policies and budgets, the current, newly minted government has made several announcements over the past month with regards to reliefs, allowances, and stimulus packages. What are the assistance or reliefs that people in the arts sector have been able to rely on and take advantage of, in these critical times where you are not able to sell tickets or operate?
DK: As far as I know there are no art specific funds or reliefs that are currently being made available by the government. Cendana has got arts grants and funds in small amounts for projects done during this time period with multiple grant dates and deadlines. There are even food aid options specific to the arts community.
(To read more about other and all arts specific initiatives, you can check it out here:
https://www.cendana.com.my/opportunities/cendanas-response-to-covid-19 )
But here is the thing with all forms of aids and reliefs, everybody is different and the needs are also different. I suspect most artists will end up taking the standard RM800 relief that the government is offering for those below a certain pay bracket. So it’s not specific to your work in the arts but specific to your pay level.
I think it’s also important that when we think of the arts we recognize that it is a vast encompassing eco-system with thousands and thousands of people being involved. And then you have the further splintering of the arts itself from theatre to visual arts to poetry to literature and so on. Within just theatre for example, you have the stage managers, the lighting crew, the stage crew, the ushers, the directors, the producers, the writers, the venue owners, the make-up people, the costume people, the actors and so many others. Each of these people has different needs and financial levels. And a lot of us within these eco-systems also do multiple jobs. So for example, I may be a writer on one project, a director on another, and a stage manager on something else. Each with its own pay scales and scheduling.
The artists who will survive this will be the ones who hopefully have other jobs. Jobs that hopefully are secure enough not to be affected by covid-19. Which goes back to our original issue where we say that any work in the arts is not sustainable. Artists since the beginning have usually held more than one job. We teach, we run workshops, we conduct events, we perform, we write, we do all the things.
In fact, there is even a saying among us arts practitioners called “CarMa”. CarMa stands for Cari Makan. Whenever an artist takes a CarMa gig we know that it was done for the money; which is an important necessity for survival. And thus we don’t fault each other when we end up taking CarMa gigs.
Q: In your opinion, what are the challenges faced by people in the arts community in Malaysia during this Movement Restriction Order and pandemic?
DK: A lot of the arts are built around the live experience and what the pandemic has effectively done is render all live experiences and events non-existent. If you play in a band, all of your band mates and you are forced to stay home in your respective homes. If you are an actor, how do you get jobs when rehearsals can’t happen and even if they move online, when will the actual show happen?
There is a genuine fear that we don’t know when live events could actually happen again. If the movement order is lifted, how long until people feel safe in attending events? If you are worried for your safety, will you truly find yourself spending money on an arts event and attending something?
There are so many variables and factors in place that we don’t know about. We aren’t sure what legislation and policies will be put about with regards to gatherings and events. We don’t know what public and audience sentiment will be like. It is a lot of unknowns that make planning and decision making very hard to do.
And that is just for those who have the privilege to return. What about those who are struggling just to feed themselves and their loved ones? How about those who need to pay rent and loans and debts, who are struggling?
This situation is going to have long-term impacts on the arts community and we are going to be having to unfortunately be dealing with it for years to come.
What are all the people sitting at home doing? Watching YouTube, watching online shows, watching Netflix, reading etc. All of these were contributed by the arts community. It is the arts that people turn to in moments of crisis to find relief and the arts continue to do so.
Q: Some may argue that arts are a luxury (like lobster and wine), which is not essential during a crisis or economic recession? What, in your opinion are the ways arts can contribute during a crisis?
DK: I think the notion that arts are a luxury is both incredibly true and incredibly false. Yes, a lot of arts events and spaces are classist in amongst itself. The cost of entry could be high thereby only allowing certain people to have access to them. There is a certain expectation as well that comes with one’s entry as an audience into these spaces especially those demarcated by the English language.
Why I say it’s false is that there are spaces that are affordable and accessible. The problem there then is promotion and how those spaces market and reach people when finances itself is a problem. Add to that the fact of the struggling artists and people behind the scenes for whom each gig is a chance to pay another bill or just another opportunity to stay on in the industry. To be fair, there are levels. There are arts practitioners who are doing well and surviving and there are those who aren’t.
I think it’s not that hard to look at how the arts have contributed all this while and continues to do so even during a crisis. What are all the people sitting at home doing? Watching YouTube, watching online shows, watching Netflix, reading etc. All of these were contributed by the arts community. It is the arts that people turn to in moments of crisis to find relief and the arts continue to do so.
I mean just look at something as simple as a community effort like the Facebook live stream event series “Unrestricted Stage”. Every weekend it is chock filled with artists of all levels teaching, performing and doing all kinds of things to entertain just from the comfort of their own homes. This is beyond incredible.
Q: What are your suggestions for the improvement and promotion of the arts scene and fraternity that can be executed by the government during a crisis like the Covid 19, or post-crisis?
DK: I remember this saying by Singaporean musician Subhas Nair:
“We are paying for peace time mistakes during a crisis” or something along those lines.
I am probably paraphrasing him wrongly. In this case he was referring to the migrant worker crisis in Singapore.
But I think this is a reference to all communities that are not looked after even during times of peace. When everything was okay, we neglected the arts. And now in times of crisis, everyone turns to the arts in some way or form. And yet the very artists who were neglected earlier are now suffering. That’s what that saying is trying to express. This should have been something we fixed earlier when everything was “okay”. Unfortunately dealing with it during a time of crisis is a little too late; but we must try.
I think the arts need to be legitimized. It shouldn’t be considered a hobby and the notion of the starving artist needs to die. Access to funding and grants should be easily accessible. The entire sector and community needs to grow. We need more stories and experiences from all facets of human society and we need better representation.
Q: In your opinion, is there a country or territory that we should exemplify in our policy and decisions with regards to arts, and why?
A: Singapore and Canada. Both have robust and healthy arts organizations and systems that cultivate and encourage the arts. Are they flawless? Probably not. But they do recognize and value their artists and do what they can to legitimize them via funding and grants that encourage the arts to flourish and grow.
Q: Do you see any opportunities to utilize the conditions of the experience living through this crisis in your work?
DK: I think once you have sorted out your financial, livelihood and overall wellbeing, then there is a lot of space and things to consider. That was one of the first things I tried to work on when the crisis began. And to be fair, it’s a near ending journey and experience that I find myself on throughout this pandemic. A consideration for the paying of bills while also marketing myself and my services and getting myself out there.
If there is anything that has come out of this for me is the space for introspection. When all the things that have been keeping me busy over the past 3 years have been removed, what do I have left? Which projects do I want to finish, which do I want to start and which need to end?
And how do I want to be? For me, it has involved a lot more sleep and rest and taking care of myself. Basically all the things I have been neglecting but are so important to my work. And then noticing the questions that are coming up for me. What kind of arts career am I building? What kind of arts career do I want to build?
I have basically instigated a deliberate pause in all the work that I once did. And slowly it’s been about adding and reworking them into my life. How much space does my podcast hold in my week? How do I want to grow it? What creative project am I devoting a lot of energy and attention? And do I see this as a short-term process or a long term one?
Its’ been a rebuilding of sorts. And I say this knowing full well that the experience for others may be completely different. I am lucky and privileged to be living with family and so I don’t have to currently worry about rent or food. I am also very lucky that while I am a full time arts practitioner, a vast amount of my paid work actually does not come from the actual act of creating and making for me. They come from the work I do with clients through my business. All of this allows me the space to consider the questions I mention above.
From a creation stand point, a group of young theatre makers and I started a collective of playwrights. For the entirety of 2020, we are each workshopping one play of our own and constantly editing and refining this one piece of work. To be able to devote an entire year to a singular piece of creation has been such a learning curve. A reminder that some work needs time and space to grow and become. When the pandemic hit, we pivoted out sessions to the online space. During this lockdown, I just finished the second draft of my full-length play. This would be my first play to go through such a process and the third play I have written.
I am also definitely working on growing and bettering my podcast. The pivot there has been to consider how we record our interviews if we can’t get the guests into our recording space. And so it’s been testing out software that allows us to record virtually. Which then opens up new worlds because if it works, we can then bring in guests and creatives from all over the world. And that is a whole other exciting ball game.
Apart from that, I am envisioning a few other creative projects that may involve writing and Zoom calls and how they could still allow us to stay connected and making art. They are all in ideation phases at the moment. The works goes on, in whatever new and old ways I can go about doing so.
Q: Despite the challenges listed above, and others, what compels you to choose the arts as a full-time career?
DK: Personally it’s hard to answer that question when to this day I don’t know if I chose the arts or the arts chose me. I have always luckily found myself in the right place at the right time and gotten the opportunities I got. I can track this from the first acting opportunity I got when I was 11 years old and auditioning to be a narrator in my school play. Instead I got casted in one of the acting roles. I could easily track a lot of them up to even now. I mean to be fair, it’s not all just been luck. But luck has definitely played a role in how arts became my full time career.
Having said that, I choose the arts because that is just how I respond to the way things are going in my world. When I used to struggle with high school, I picked up drawing and imagining fantastical worlds. When I see a lack of representation in the media, I choose to write and imagine the world that I want to see.
So I wish I had a clearer answer to this but I don’t. Despite all the struggles I don’t see myself stopping. I will continue to perform, direct, produce, make and create. At the very least, I would always be writing. Somehow and someway.
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